In reponse to a comment left on the last post...
*gibberish blather...
*wannabe writer...
*doubt about personal integrity...
Hmm...
Methinks it is not my personal integrity at question here...I said I disagreed with your arguments...I didn't call you names...I could…but I don’t…I don’t even want to…I’m not sure why you do…
I have made a recorded history of expressing opinion that is strong and strongly expressed, but balanced… I also backed off of this “discourse” earlier because of this type of behavior…if disparaging this writer is the best that you can think to do in your intellectual arguments when presenting your views, then I do understand the psychology of whom I am dealing with and I have no desire to engage. If you would like to continue this conversation, I need to deal with an adult.
Personal assaults are abusive and really show a lack of ability…they do not forward your arguments…they degrade your points of view that you are attempting to make. They are harmful…and unfortunate. I would suggest writing your responses, if you decide to continue, with less emotion and more rationale. Just a suggestion if you really have a desire in challenging my thought process.
*I will argue that a majority of United States citizens no longer can agree on a clear definition of what freedom means...
I would argue that this has been a problem since the inception of the country. Do I believe in uprooting indigenous peoples? How about enslaving other people from a whole different continent? We fought a civil war based on the difference in definition of freedom. We are still fighting political wars over the definition of freedom. Abortion, gay marriage, executions, drug use, smoking, toking, stroking, in God we trust, taxation, unfettered capitalism, prayer in schools, on and on…we don’t agree on the fine points. No...I think the definition of what our freedom means and how far it extends has been an age old question since, as I said before…our country’s inception…but that doesn’t mean that everything I have already asserted isn’t accurate, correct, or “right”.
You have also quoted several things I have written but have taken them completely out of context to suit your purpose much like we consistently watch media and political parties do…and while I can understand how one might develop a cynical approach to the things I have written…the dysfunctions of some of the members of our society are an unfortunate but realistic part of our society…but not the entire society as a whole…and while I stand by my past assertions to the degrading pieces of this society…mine is more of a call to recognition in order to change what is there as opposed to hiding from it and acting as if it is not there…a call to change if you will…and yes…meaning must be a large part of it. Apparently we disagree on this point…this fine point…but I stand by what I have written and believe it, and here in America...we can agree to disagree.
*Yet, they are clearly equally divided into two groups arguing about what is not freedom.
I would argue that there are many more than simply two groups…even if you are talking political systems there may be two major parties…but last time I checked the two major financially backed candidates are not the only people, based on organized political parties that are running for president. We are fractured by groups of differentiating thought. There are always several out there who are representing those that fundamentally disagree with either of the two major parties. But that still doesn’t attack the heart of what I asserted. We collectively believe in freedom…and we spread that idea around the world…and to those that are of a closed mind…the idea of freedom is dangerous.
*Do you share in the same freedoms as your Father? I suggest looking for the resources that reflect what your senses are telling you. Something contrary to a habitual practice of digesting the interpretations of the talking heads, religious leadership or politicians.
My father was born into a different country, Spain, into a civil war being perpetrated by a ruthless dictator who murdered large amounts of people, and into an economy that was far behind where we are even today. My father ran from there as a teen and many years later eventually landed here in this land. My perspective is different and my reasoning sound. Where my ideas and thinking come from are not based on CNN, MSNBC, or FOX. While I do agree that one’s senses are how one creates understanding and therefore a perspective…I think maybe your assumptions about others should not be so narrow as to think that everyone comes from the same background or perspective…or be so braindead as to not think for themselves...but all that still does not shake my point in that “patriotic proclamation” as you coined it, which I gotta admit…I kinda like. Thanks for the kudo.
This nation believes in freedom…and we should. Defining things is also something I have written about in the past. It is vitally important…but even in the defining of a thing there will be divisive controversy. This is human nature.
I would also like to challenge the challenger here. Mine is an opinion created from observation and self-exploration. Observing what my fellow Americans have done and are doing…and what I have seen as important to my own path. I am not simply espousing or regurgitating someone else’s rhetoric. I simply…wrote what I believe. I would however suggest that your challenges are brought forward by simple rule of philosophical thought, challenge, and contradiction and therefore are simply a rote reaction to an idea expressed. Not even because you believe differently. Questioning a statement for the sake of the question and not in where it will go…it is the movement rather than the importance…you are actually strengthening the point I made in We the People…LOL…because it is our freedom here in this great country that allows me to speak my observations, and allows you to challenge them…
*The fact is, as I said at the beginning of our discussion, that the wannabe writer does not have a need for knowledge of the truth about what is right or good.
This is not a fact. In essence you are making a judgment of me here…and once again the assertion is personal rather than philosophical…but even if you take the personal out of it…a need for knowledge of truth of what is right and good….sounds like the sentiment of the religious right…asserting your idea of what is right upon me…without the option for alternative. Isn’t this exactly what you accuse me of doing?
For shame LOL…come on dude…
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3 comments:
Hold the rope, pull back the reigns... the comments about gibberish blather was in reference to my own "gibberish blather"
How'd you miss that??? I don't know.
I should quite while I am ahead... I can't manage to write with any more clearity.
Given your interpretation of what I've said. I can't read futher than your opening statement... it would be pointless. Pointless to responde.
I'll miss the discource.
Best wishes
Make a wonderful life 4 yourself
FREEDOM OF SPEECH
“As an active privilege, it ranks with the privilege of committing murder; we may exercise it if we are willing to take the consequences”
-Mark Twain
Did my reply have an appeal to ridicule? Please, it staggers my imagination that it was interpreted as such. Perhaps, my style of writing is an insult to a mature, cultured class of people accustomed to … But, I didn’t come close to ridicule. Again, you do further strengthen your point in response to mine…or sometimes not. How’s that prove an insult to you? I think it makes for a much more interesting blog…
---“The fact is, as I said at the beginning of our discussion, that the wannabe writer does not have a need for knowledge of the truth about what is right or good.”
Is this my statement of Judgment with regard to you? No.
Do you consider yourself a “wannabe” writer? I must direct you attention to So-crates: who supposedly said; ”… that the aspiring speaker needs no knowledge of the truth about what is right or good...; all that matters is plausibility...”
For you to believe my statement was made to serve as my Judgment is far from obvious. However, this indicates to me that you are reading into the meaning and sentiment, far too much for your own good or benefit. I’ve carefully crafted my reply’s to avoid such insults, appeals to ridicule (with one previous exception), or attempts to debase your character.
---I would also like to challenge the challenger here… I am not simply espousing or regurgitating someone else’s rhetoric… I simply…wrote what I believe”
“We the people”… That was simply an outstanding original phrase. LoL
And I too, also like “patriotic proclamation”. But unlike you, I cannot lay claim to a form of originality.
Alas, my time is limited. I would say or sing many more praises to you… for you. And answer more directly to you replies. I’ll have to try later
Don’t take me seriously, as to cause injury to one’s own ego.
Final Comment
Your interpretation of my previous reply had me reflecting on a point of view my eldest son once held.
When he was about five years old, he argued a point. His point, that I was mean and being mean, for two reasons.
First, was making him take a bath.
Second, remarking that he held an offensive and strong pungent odder about his person.
(He appropriately did smell like an old dirty sneaker that had been wading through puddles of muddy dung.) Never the less, he was offended at my comment and the command to bath.
As with most all opinions, I am conditioned to give deep and serious consideration. Even those views, as expressed by a five year old. And upon consideration, I found him to be correct. I was, in fact, from his point of view being “mean”. (So, am I begging the question here?) Or as a parent have you found yourself in a similar situation?
Now, my reaction was to consider a more unobvious fact of life. That while my comment about his strong offensive odder may have “hurt his feelings” regarding his self-esteem and our relationship. It was never the less true. And although, taking a bath was against his best judgment of time management. It was never the less, my privilege to manage his time.
Then I explained. What would be truly “mean” of me? Truly “mean” would be allowing him to continue to go un-bathed, un-clean and remain offensively odorous. I continued the point; that the other children and his classmates would most likely begin to make fun of his “stinky” situation. And eventually, this would result in a call to Child Protective Services. At which time he could be taken from his home and placed in the care of strangers. Who by no doubt of the imagination would be “mean” to him, in this exact situation he and I found each other. LOL
I cannot allow myself an armistice for the sake of satisfying an understanding, idea or belief stemming from immaturity. Even when, I’m accused of being “mean”.
--"I think the definition of what our freedom means and how far it extends has been an age old question since, as I said before…our country’s inception."
In your previously stated opinion the definition of our national freedom is freedom from; “…tyranny and oppression”… and …”from someone telling us how to think and what to believe…” Also, that we don’t have to “…bow down and cower…”
--You have also quoted several things I have written but have taken them completely out of context to suit your purpose
Lets revisit your point of view.
It was through your “strong” argument that divided the Nation into the categories of “dysfunctional” and “clever hair-less apes…” that in your opinion “We Don’t truly KNOW anything”. By your own assessment, this leaves a disparaging outlook for the nation.
So, let’s now be clear on my point. Vacillating on your opinion to suit your remarks is not the same as changing your point of view. While it is a prerogative to do the latter, it is considered speciousness and an abuse of trust to do the former. Which in the former, you seem to be following suit. And that my fellow American has been the root problem for Authority in America.
“…We are powerful and great not because of our might...or our military...but because of what we believe...and hold to be true…”
My fellow American, if the United States was without its military might there is no belief or held truth that would keep us. Your father escaped from a ruthless dictator in his homeland to arrive sometime later in the United States. No doubt he sought Naturalization. No doubt he sought to build a solid home,family and life in the United States. No doubt he wishes for you to have an opportunity to do the same and more. My question was and remains; Are the encumbrances you must bear equal to that of your Fathers?
I will say, with my most honest voice that in your opinion on this matter, lays the insight that will make the kind of America you leave for your children. So, please be none too hasty in answering.
---“…We have people starving to death in the streets of this country...not a third world country...but right here in the good old USA" and "…we are clever hairless little apes…"
---“I do not see how Saddam Hussein relates…”
--- “…your assumption about others should not be so broad as to think that everyone comes from the same background or perspective…”
I hold an equal sentiment for the last of these statements, a similar distaste as when you presupposed my position on freedom.
Being afforded the liberty to speak your mind comes at the expense of having someone, other than yourself listening. All too often, it is then that we’ve mistaken this liberty to mean we can yell “fire” in a crowded theater.
Lastly, you’ve commented that I was responding simply out of philosophical spite…for give my oversimplification of your point of view. But I think it’s sufficient.
Answering that question would provide what measure of satisfaction for you or anyone? The effort for asking such, I must leave you to ponder on considering your purpose. As in the beginning of our discourse, it was I that pointed out to you… That we decide what is.
Rock, Paper, Scissors
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