The American Heritage dictionary cites a rhetorical question as being: A question to which no answer is expected.
The same dictionary also defines rhetoric as: 1. The art or study of using language effectively and persuasively. 2. A style of speaking or writing. 3. Language that is pretentous or insincere.
Having a definition is a great place to start with a journey...
About this term...I will be clear here...I personally am not interested in being pretentous nor am I interested in being insincere. There is no value in this to me and I have no interest in my being in the world through either of these lenses.
I am interested in the art of using language effectively and pursuasively...but in my opinion...effectively and persuasively actually includes definition and meaning in what is being said...otherwise it is essentially...simply...talking without actually saying anything...and quite frankly....what is the point of simply blowing wind?
I am more interested in depth...and I think my postings attempt to do this...and I will continue to pursue doing the same...
So...rhetorical questions...are really just for making a point...but they are not really a way of discussing anything of depth, personal value, or meaning...because by definition...one is not looking for an answer...or to use an old adage...one can not see the forrest for the trees.
How does one define integrity? A personal definition?...
Again the same dictionary defines integrity as: 1. Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code. 2. Soundness. 3. Completeness; unity.
So...personal integrity...it should include the above definition...and be added to because it is personal...of course this is my opinon. But it is a deep question...because most people are not honest with them selves...much less being honest with their wife/husband....children....parents...siblings...employer...so how much personal integrity is one living with if one isn't even the least of what qualifies unity and completeness? Soundness? Morality or ethical codes? How much self respect is one living with if one does not have personal integrity? These are not....rhetorical questions...they are deep....meaningful...respectfilled personal questions that....again in my humble opinion....should be asked by every individual...and not just asked...but answered.
What does it mean in your life? What defines your personal integrity? What defines your self respect? How closely are you living up to what you think you should be doing? Are you close...or are you still searching for what this is...in your own life?
Language is important...and usuage of language is important...but if it does not contain meaning...then...well...what are we doing that has any real importance or value? Where is the personal growth? I would invite the reader to read one of my older posts. http://thethoughtlounge.blogspot.com/2007/05/meaning-making-machines.html
Personally...I am interested in my own growth as a person...my own development...my ability to understand depth...not simply rules...the lessons of the ten thousand things...and the letting those ten thousand things go...to again refer to and quote a very old text.
Namaste
Friday, October 26, 2007
Sunday, October 14, 2007
Response to two...too...
Marc Malkin said...
TOPICS
Workplace Taboos
Knowledge as function, mechanical function, is necessary. Knowledge, in relationship, in human relationship, is destructive.
Attachment disorder
Since I have spoken on knowledge in a couple of the most previous posts I thought I would add just a bit to it....by this request...just for fun.
Knowledge as function...mechanical function...is necessary. I wholeheartedly agree with this statement as I'm sure anyone who is living in the United States in this day and age probably would. Most of our lives is managed and in even some cases controlled by mechanical function. Vehicles for travel, alarm clocks and watches for being prompt, ovens, refrigerators, and microwaves for feeding ourselves and families, computers for our knowledge, professional pursuits, entertainment, and communication, cell phones, home phones, IPods, TV's, radios, medical tools and functions, power tools, railways, planes, trains, heavy equipment, and on and on...
Just in our medical community alone...the growth, development, and advances that are keeping us as a society and community healthier are adding to not only our collective length of life but also...and in some ways more importantly...the quality of our lives. If one wanders back just a hundred years ago the quality of life has risen dramatically.
Knowledge in relationship...in human relationship...is destructive. This to me is more of a cynical statement...or maybe it is a question...although either way there is some truth in it. It can be destructive. But...even though I do say there is truth in it...I do not believe that the statement...in and of itself...is true. Knowing that your partner is human and fallible is important to being able to "forgive them their trespasses"...to quote a famous prayer.
Knowing a partners personal ideosyncratic peculiarities allows us to be human together and form a true partnership...one based in equality...and of course I am describing a primary relationship. This philisophical statement is also true for friendships and family...professional relationships...and community relationships as well...but it is in the primary relationship with one's significant other that this philosophy is most true.
My personal assertion is that while knowledge can be painful...it is the honest expression from the people with whom you are having these relationships with...that creates open communication...and therefore...is a healthy thing. Be it positive or negative information. No one enjoys being hurt and I think personally if there is something that one believes will hurt someone else they know...especially if it is a close relationship...the information should be handled with care...but I do believe that the old adage "honestly is the best policy"...is true. Now having said that...I also believe the feelings of the person being addressed are very important as well...so there needs to be a balance between expression of opinion and empathy.
But if the "knowledge" is not opinion...but information....as in...I did something that you should know about...then this question filters down to one of personal integrity and quite frankly...my opinion on this subject is rather strong.
If...it is a matter of telling someone of information in which you know will hurt...especially it if is information that involves an act of your own that exemplifies your own "lack of" personal integrity...then it is healthier...to be honest...and start again from a place that is open and clear. It is painful...and can be wrenching...and there is something to be said for timing in when to lay it on the line...but in my opinion...holding back the truth is dishonest, non-authentic, and completely anti-genuine.
One's own personal integrity is really all we as individuals own. We can only...really...be as good as our word and who we are as people...so it is in this frame that your statement holds validity Marc...because if the knowledge we understand...is to be harmful to someone in our lives...the most painfilled truths...are those which involve our own lack of personal integrity. Be it our own act or holding knowledge of anothers...for the purpose of hiding truth from those we care about.
I will say this...there is an arguement for keeping something from someone for the sole and intended purpose of "not" hurting them...and I think we have all...or at least most...done this at some time. There are times when this seems to be valid and...honestly I don't have all the answers as to when this discretion is valid and when it is not...but I do hold that more often than not...the right thing to do...is to be honest...with diplomacy and empathy for the respondants feelings...but all the same...tell the truth.
I have found in my experience and observations...that the lack of truth....is more destructive to relationships...and tears people down. In knowing that the person one thought they could trust to be open and honest...isn't. So...tell the truth.
TOPICS
Workplace Taboos
Knowledge as function, mechanical function, is necessary. Knowledge, in relationship, in human relationship, is destructive.
Attachment disorder
Since I have spoken on knowledge in a couple of the most previous posts I thought I would add just a bit to it....by this request...just for fun.
Knowledge as function...mechanical function...is necessary. I wholeheartedly agree with this statement as I'm sure anyone who is living in the United States in this day and age probably would. Most of our lives is managed and in even some cases controlled by mechanical function. Vehicles for travel, alarm clocks and watches for being prompt, ovens, refrigerators, and microwaves for feeding ourselves and families, computers for our knowledge, professional pursuits, entertainment, and communication, cell phones, home phones, IPods, TV's, radios, medical tools and functions, power tools, railways, planes, trains, heavy equipment, and on and on...
Just in our medical community alone...the growth, development, and advances that are keeping us as a society and community healthier are adding to not only our collective length of life but also...and in some ways more importantly...the quality of our lives. If one wanders back just a hundred years ago the quality of life has risen dramatically.
Knowledge in relationship...in human relationship...is destructive. This to me is more of a cynical statement...or maybe it is a question...although either way there is some truth in it. It can be destructive. But...even though I do say there is truth in it...I do not believe that the statement...in and of itself...is true. Knowing that your partner is human and fallible is important to being able to "forgive them their trespasses"...to quote a famous prayer.
Knowing a partners personal ideosyncratic peculiarities allows us to be human together and form a true partnership...one based in equality...and of course I am describing a primary relationship. This philisophical statement is also true for friendships and family...professional relationships...and community relationships as well...but it is in the primary relationship with one's significant other that this philosophy is most true.
My personal assertion is that while knowledge can be painful...it is the honest expression from the people with whom you are having these relationships with...that creates open communication...and therefore...is a healthy thing. Be it positive or negative information. No one enjoys being hurt and I think personally if there is something that one believes will hurt someone else they know...especially if it is a close relationship...the information should be handled with care...but I do believe that the old adage "honestly is the best policy"...is true. Now having said that...I also believe the feelings of the person being addressed are very important as well...so there needs to be a balance between expression of opinion and empathy.
But if the "knowledge" is not opinion...but information....as in...I did something that you should know about...then this question filters down to one of personal integrity and quite frankly...my opinion on this subject is rather strong.
If...it is a matter of telling someone of information in which you know will hurt...especially it if is information that involves an act of your own that exemplifies your own "lack of" personal integrity...then it is healthier...to be honest...and start again from a place that is open and clear. It is painful...and can be wrenching...and there is something to be said for timing in when to lay it on the line...but in my opinion...holding back the truth is dishonest, non-authentic, and completely anti-genuine.
One's own personal integrity is really all we as individuals own. We can only...really...be as good as our word and who we are as people...so it is in this frame that your statement holds validity Marc...because if the knowledge we understand...is to be harmful to someone in our lives...the most painfilled truths...are those which involve our own lack of personal integrity. Be it our own act or holding knowledge of anothers...for the purpose of hiding truth from those we care about.
I will say this...there is an arguement for keeping something from someone for the sole and intended purpose of "not" hurting them...and I think we have all...or at least most...done this at some time. There are times when this seems to be valid and...honestly I don't have all the answers as to when this discretion is valid and when it is not...but I do hold that more often than not...the right thing to do...is to be honest...with diplomacy and empathy for the respondants feelings...but all the same...tell the truth.
I have found in my experience and observations...that the lack of truth....is more destructive to relationships...and tears people down. In knowing that the person one thought they could trust to be open and honest...isn't. So...tell the truth.
Saturday, October 13, 2007
The book reference...
Hiya Terry...and everyone...
I just wanted to hand out the name of that book I brought up in my other post...it was late at night when I wrote that other post....ya know how it is....I have to take advantage of the times the two year old is asleep LOL...anywah...I dug it out and just wanted to share...
The name of the book is "As The Future Catches You (How Genomics & Other Forces Are Changing Your Life, Work, Health & Wealth) by: Juan Enriquez. "Juan is the director of the Life Sciences Project at Harvard Business School" <--from the jacket of the book.
Good book and a quick read...and an insight as to where we are heading.
Enjoy...
I liked your last quote...and I highly agree with the good father. As far as your assertion that a knowledgeable person is not necessarily wise...I wholeheartedly agree...some of the most educated people I have met....are the least wise as well.
I just wanted to hand out the name of that book I brought up in my other post...it was late at night when I wrote that other post....ya know how it is....I have to take advantage of the times the two year old is asleep LOL...anywah...I dug it out and just wanted to share...
The name of the book is "As The Future Catches You (How Genomics & Other Forces Are Changing Your Life, Work, Health & Wealth) by: Juan Enriquez. "Juan is the director of the Life Sciences Project at Harvard Business School" <--from the jacket of the book.
Good book and a quick read...and an insight as to where we are heading.
Enjoy...
I liked your last quote...and I highly agree with the good father. As far as your assertion that a knowledgeable person is not necessarily wise...I wholeheartedly agree...some of the most educated people I have met....are the least wise as well.
Thursday, October 11, 2007
First Response...
Anonymous said...
"Thank you, for the invitation. I'll have a go at it. The intent is to playfully, play the role of the critic with the interest of provoking your intellect, challenging your position and raise your skill. This course of discourse, I choose is only beneficial to us both if in fact the true spirit of your invitation is in the manner of the democratic judgment. Rather than creating an oppositional attitude.
“Anchors”
I was challenged to overcome the confusion of ideas’. And statements that I, believe unintentionally insult the reader. Or I missed the purpose of this entirely. The subjective opening was a respectable introspective story. However, the change in tone within the second paragraph is bewildering. I am still unsure if it was your attempt to present satirical write. A comically ironic Wood Allen’esk Characterization of a wax-prophetic nincompoop.
First, that "there is very little that we actually know in this life."
This remark seems to arise from a time long past. As though, you are borrowing from someone else’s idea. Not a very contemporary idea. Today, I read the distaining remark on human intellect and knowledge with wonderment. Human intellect and knowledge have progressed considerably. Having come through the age of discovery, energy and entering the information stage. Some authorities on the matter are actually calling this era we live in the "Information age". Not because of the World Wide Web or advancing forms of electronic communications. Is that what you think, “The Information Age” means?
The use of the pronoun “we” as a way to avoid a subjective tone. Was that your intent? There is a considerable amount that "we" know. For GOD sakes man, "we" can actually measure the amount of uncertainty associated with the value of X. You down with Entropy? Ya, you know me !!“We” can land a probe on a planet some 48 million miles at its smallest distance to our planet. And study it.
Second, that our "fallible" and "imperfect" senses cloud our perceptions.
You discredit your own assertion of uniqueness, by finding fault in the very tools with which uniqueness can be surmised. From first to last these imperfect and fallible senses provide you with an ability to conjecture. And an attempt to strengthen your position by demonstrating the limitations of human optics is by no means, defining fault with the senses. Nor backing up your claims. If you want to see farther down the railroad tracks … pick up a pair of Binoculars. ("we" discovered the limits of human optics ages ago… that’s why "we" created telescopes, micro-scopes etc...) Thank you, Galileo Galilei. Please, read “Sensors, Filters, and the Source of Reality"ROBERT G. JAHN AND BRENDA J. DUNNEPrinceton Engineering Anomalies ResearchPrinceton UniversityD-334 Engineering Quadrangle School of Engineering/Applied Science Princeton NJ 08544-5263e-mail: rgjahn@princeton.edu; bjd@princeton.edu
Thirdly, ETHOS, PATHOS, LOGOS.
You attempt to redefine that which has already been defined with poorly contrived mixed metaphors, "Our anchors are those things which keep us grounded and balanced" In fact, the ballast or Keel is what stabilizes a ship. Not the anchor. The anchor is to keep a ship from drifting to far from a desired location. "Grounded", is the one thing a ship never wants to be. What do you mean, when you say; "profoundly anchored …?" And your use of "it"… instead of they or them. "We strive to attain 'them' and then work hard at maintaining 'them' " This would be grammatically correct. However, your meaning was lost somewhere in the continuous us of "it". Stop it !
Lastly, I am familiar with the prose "Do we not…" this and "Do we not…" that. Establish your own prose. Be unique!
You speak to human value. The value of a human. Collectively, "we" will set that price. Throughout human history, rightfully or wrongly. "We" always have made the valuation. You may personally contribute to adjusting the scale. But, "we" will never, nor have we ever allowed a single individual to establish the scale.
I know this last part was a smelly retort. I just couldn't help myself.Best wishes, Keep it real !"
To anonymous...whomever you are...I will first say that I am thankful for your responses and your input. I respect that you have taken the time, effort, and energy to respond to what I have written and I respect what you are saying. I am grateful for your interest and humbled by your interaction. Thank you...
Since we are in this discussion and I am responding to your ideas I want to be able to talk to
"you" and since I do not know who you are or have anything to call you...I will from this point name you simply for the purpose of giving myself a reference for you...as opposed to just calling you anonymous...or anon...or mous...it is a bit more human this way...and since I know nothing about you...I will give you a gender neutral name just to cover all bases.....Terry.
If at any point you wish to correct my feeble attempt at familiarity I openly invite you to do so...but for the time being and with the information at hand...Terry...I will respond to your first post and see if I can clear some things up.
Your opening paragraph set the tone for the rest of what you wrote, and I was glad to see that your stated intent was fun and to be intellectually stimulating which for me is something I am absolutely interested in. I love a good challenge and constructive criticism means I have an opportunity to learn . If you have actually read the rest of my postings then you will understand learning and personal growth are things I am very interested in.
As for the blog about "Anchors"...I am sorry if you felt insulted by my assertion and equally if my writing was not clearly articulated...which may have unintentionally missed the target for you as a reader. Be that as it may...and after going back and rereading the post again myself...I will say Terry...that I stand by what I wrote and the assertion I made in the blog. Let me please explain...
The second paragraph was not meant as satirical nor was it contrived. It is a statement of understanding...explaining that I...as an individual...have not only the belief....but also the humility and depth of understanding...that I am not solely responsible for any intellect, understanding, gift, or wisdom that I possess. I believe that I collect things along my path...as a beachcomber collects shells and sand dollars among the drifting waves...
The ideas...perceptions...beliefs...faith...understanding...education...and even a shot or two of wisdom...these things and more I pick up along the journey...but I am not arrogant enough to believe that I am who I have become, simply and solely because of me. Frankly that thought is just too simplistic and as persons of depth and intellect we should see that we are not responsible for all that we understand. It was this place of collective wisdom in me...that I am not solely responsible for what I understand...that other forces....God...other people...fate...faith...Karma....call the sources whatever labels you will....they have all contributed to my growth and development...This is what I stated in the second paragraph...and it led me to the point of the blog....anchors....
Now...I seem to have touched some chord with you on this point...so let me start by saying...the word anchor...has more than one definition...it is certainly used and understood to be related to nautical activities and while I will say that I much appreciate your schooling me on the finer points of a nautical vessel and the correct usage of a ballast and keel...again...I stand by not only my usage of the word....but it's meaning as well...and you actually made my point for me...let me explain.
In the American Heritage Dictionary...the first definition of
"anchor" is that of a boat anchor....but the second...says...and I quote...
"2. A source of security or stability." It is to this reference I wrote to and in this context in which I made my assertion...we all...all human beings....use things in our lives to give us a feeling of safety and security...stability...if you will...so while I actually did not make a nautical reference...I did reference the word correctly...for a source of security or stability...is something that keeps us grounded....and balanced...it is something often used in the therapeutic world and I beg forgiveness for not being more clear...but I would invite you to go back and reread the blog....I did...more than once...and that is the foundation from which I write this response.
As for the comments concerning what we know...you are right!....absolutely right!!!...my reference hark ens back to ages ago...multiple millennia in fact...it comes from Plato's book "The Republic" as he was referencing teachings of Socrates and I by no means meant for this idea to come across as original. Far from it. Again I apologize if my writing reads as something it is not...I meant no disrespect to Plato...or Socrates...or to the reader...but I find...that even though these thoughts were written more than a couple thousand years ago...they are still as true today....if not more so...than as when they were first put down...pen to paper...again...please allow me to explain...
I used a clumsy reference to our senses to create a hypothesis...being that we do not "know" much of anything...but this reference is frankly true...and has again and again been proven scientifically in laboratories...our five senses are not as sharp as we would love to believe...and our greatest achievement...I personally think...as humans...is our brain...frankly...and our brains are extremely fallible...I mean...really.....come on Terry....you don't actually believe...that we as human beings know much....do you? Really?!? Come on....
Nah....I will tell you what I believe we are...what we have achieved...what we are...ultimately....is just cleverness...we are very clever...we are good at being clever....but knowledge? True knowledge?....Sorry Terry...mankind has not proven ourselves in that regard yet...not even close. Let me take what you have given as examples...
Solving for X...um...math...OK...I've studied through Calculus myself and while it is a systematic method of solving a problem...it is simply a tool...you said it yourself...and is used as such. Not to minimize it's complexities because even though I have personally learned higher math...I am not a mathematical kinda guy...Entropy...again a tool to measure disorder...being able to create a tool...is cool....it is clever...very clever...but that...in and of itself...does not equate to knowledge...
We also "know" how to create a rocket that we can fuel, project through a trajectory, land, and communicate with...through millions of miles of space...truly clever!...but...we can't figure out...how to keep a 14 year old from walking into a school...with loaded weapons...(another clever tool)...and shooting other children and teachers...and then themselves. We can not figure out how to stop genocide...in our own time...right now...even though we still have members of the families and military that won WW II for us...and members of our human race that survived the Nazi death camps....all still alive today to tell the story...
We can't get and keep millions of Americans off of alcohol...meth...tobacco...to even save their own lives...not to even mention what kind of atrocities they commit with and to their children...because we don't "know" how...
We have people starving to death in the streets of this country...not a third world country...but right here in the good old USA...and we don't "know" how to get them all fed...children included...
We are at war with two countries so far...at the moment...and have at least another 2-3 that we are seriously threatening...and yet we are leaving China alone...trading as long as the day is...like there is nothing going on...because we don't "know" how to control others...and keep ourselves safe at the same time...
We have a country where respect for self is a dying art...not the common place...not anymore...and families being torn apart because of so many people being overwhelmed...because they individually....and we collectively...do not KNOW what to do...
Suicide rates...drug and alcohol dependency, greed, violence, crime, a degrading of our educational systems, a breakdown of common decency and respect, out of control health care and insurance systems and markets, global trade deficits, honesty, integrity, parenting, divorce, sexual predators, an absolute over population of our prison and jail systems, compassion, caring, corporate malfeasance, gang and organized crime, genocide, murder, racism, sexism, social class war, the separation between "haves" and "have nots", and on and on and on and on....
We don't KNOW....how to repair any of this...and soo much more...
Nah...sorry Terry...we don't "know" much of anything at all.
We have a new religion these days...and that is science...many folks look to science as the new frontier...the new "god"...and don't get me wrong...I appreciate all that science has to offer...I benefit from it personally and I thank God for it every day...but I know it's limitations...and I see it's fallibility. There's so much it has done for us and can do. But...If we were so smart...how come we can't cure the common cold?
How come I have a son who is currently talking to me about his own death...at the tender age of 23...because he has Cystic Fibrosis...and he can not be cured...no one can grow him new lungs...not yet anyway...the best we can offer him is to give him someone else's lungs...and of course only if they die first...and that will only mean he will have a likelihood of another 7-10 years...if he doesn't reject the organs...he might see that anyway...and who knows where the medical community will be by then...with another political system we might actually have a visionary in the white house who sees stem cell research for what it is...a way to save lives...but here we sit...with politicians blocking funding...because they can not agree on whose life it is that should be lost...because let's be honest Terry....someone is going to die...so these folks think they are clever enough to "play God" and know...who should be the one to choose to die...the little young one...or the older one who is already here...do any of us truly know what is right...do you? Do I?
Knowledge...if it is TRUE knowledge...should lead to wisdom....and lets face it...it you Think...you know something...it is wisdom that allows you to KNOW what to do with that knowledge...so come on Terry...really....how much do we really know?...I mean let's be honest here...we are clever hairless little apes...but wise?....sorry man...it just ain't so...not yet anyway...I mean hey...we are working on it...yeaup....but we ain't got it down yet bro...Hey man...you said keep it real...I'm keeping it real...
Oh...and that comment about the "information age". Actually...that term...the "information age" is an economics term...it is not referring to the web...nor is it referring to computers at all...not directly anyway...it comes from a conversation on economics...you know..."agricultural age", "industrial age", "information age"...it is a term that is talking about commerce...NOT electronic communication...but the selling of information...so...to answer your question Terry...yeah I do know what the term means...and where it came from...but...did you know....that we are actually leaving the "information age"?...There are some...like a business professor at Harvard University who has written a book about a very interesting trend in which we are actually steeped in currently. I will try to get the author's name and title of the book for you in my next post...it's a good book and a pretty quick read...but basically he says that we are now entering a new age...a new age is dawning that is now focused on intellectual property...patents...and copyrights...and truthfully...that is why we are farming out all of our information selling to countries like India. That's why anytime you talk to an American company anymore...on the phone...you are actually talking to someone on the other side of the world.
See...first we grew and sold food and other ag products...and then we learned how to build factories to build widgets (that's what we called 'em in business school;)...then we learned that information was valuable and we could make a lot of money with that...and now Terry...now...it is ALL about patents and copyrights....that is why Central and South America are chopping down their rain forests so that they can start growing food...because even though we still do it here some...we are letting that market go...and as for manufacturing...most of it is already gone to other countries too...we farm out our farms and our industries...and now we are doing it with our white collar jobs and businesses as well...the info....and the real money now....is in patents...and copyrights...and this country leads the world in these forms of revenue...by a margin that is staggering...and that is why the gap between the "haves" and "have nots" has grown so far and so fast. It is escalating...and will only get worse. Globally...we are in a dangerous trend...with no end in sight....and we are in trouble because of systems theory...which I will go into in another post...this one is sufficiently long enough as it is...suffice it to say...I should call this one good.
Oh...there is one last thing...before I wrap it up...you wrote a response to my blog from Monday night...and I think you might have misunderstood what I was trying to say there...I was trying to reassure you...because of your comment..."This course of discourse, I choose is only beneficial to us both if in fact the true spirit of your invitation is in the manner of the democratic judgment. Rather than creating an oppositional attitude." I was trying to reassure you that I would not be coming from an "oppositional attitude" for the sake of arguing, competing, or opposing...quite the contrary...I have opinions and I express them...but I try to do so with respect for whomever I am speaking with. When I said I would not participate in something that turned unhealthy...I spoke for myself...and again I hold to that...this is a form of voicing a personal boundary...as well as making a commitment to keeping my self in check as well. But I work with people on a regular basis whom cross such lines at will and while I understand that this does not represent everyone...I still find myself taking such precautions and deeming them necessary because I have learned in my personal experience...that even the most schooled and scholarly can have issues with crossing personal boundaries...and I therefore find it a healthy practice to voice a concern early on simply to have the air clear rather than leaving things in such an ambiguous state.
I hope to post again soon...and again...thank you Terry....and thank you all for the input...I really do appreciate it.
"Thank you, for the invitation. I'll have a go at it. The intent is to playfully, play the role of the critic with the interest of provoking your intellect, challenging your position and raise your skill. This course of discourse, I choose is only beneficial to us both if in fact the true spirit of your invitation is in the manner of the democratic judgment. Rather than creating an oppositional attitude.
“Anchors”
I was challenged to overcome the confusion of ideas’. And statements that I, believe unintentionally insult the reader. Or I missed the purpose of this entirely. The subjective opening was a respectable introspective story. However, the change in tone within the second paragraph is bewildering. I am still unsure if it was your attempt to present satirical write. A comically ironic Wood Allen’esk Characterization of a wax-prophetic nincompoop.
First, that "there is very little that we actually know in this life."
This remark seems to arise from a time long past. As though, you are borrowing from someone else’s idea. Not a very contemporary idea. Today, I read the distaining remark on human intellect and knowledge with wonderment. Human intellect and knowledge have progressed considerably. Having come through the age of discovery, energy and entering the information stage. Some authorities on the matter are actually calling this era we live in the "Information age". Not because of the World Wide Web or advancing forms of electronic communications. Is that what you think, “The Information Age” means?
The use of the pronoun “we” as a way to avoid a subjective tone. Was that your intent? There is a considerable amount that "we" know. For GOD sakes man, "we" can actually measure the amount of uncertainty associated with the value of X. You down with Entropy? Ya, you know me !!“We” can land a probe on a planet some 48 million miles at its smallest distance to our planet. And study it.
Second, that our "fallible" and "imperfect" senses cloud our perceptions.
You discredit your own assertion of uniqueness, by finding fault in the very tools with which uniqueness can be surmised. From first to last these imperfect and fallible senses provide you with an ability to conjecture. And an attempt to strengthen your position by demonstrating the limitations of human optics is by no means, defining fault with the senses. Nor backing up your claims. If you want to see farther down the railroad tracks … pick up a pair of Binoculars. ("we" discovered the limits of human optics ages ago… that’s why "we" created telescopes, micro-scopes etc...) Thank you, Galileo Galilei. Please, read “Sensors, Filters, and the Source of Reality"ROBERT G. JAHN AND BRENDA J. DUNNEPrinceton Engineering Anomalies ResearchPrinceton UniversityD-334 Engineering Quadrangle School of Engineering/Applied Science Princeton NJ 08544-5263e-mail: rgjahn@princeton.edu; bjd@princeton.edu
Thirdly, ETHOS, PATHOS, LOGOS.
You attempt to redefine that which has already been defined with poorly contrived mixed metaphors, "Our anchors are those things which keep us grounded and balanced" In fact, the ballast or Keel is what stabilizes a ship. Not the anchor. The anchor is to keep a ship from drifting to far from a desired location. "Grounded", is the one thing a ship never wants to be. What do you mean, when you say; "profoundly anchored …?" And your use of "it"… instead of they or them. "We strive to attain 'them' and then work hard at maintaining 'them' " This would be grammatically correct. However, your meaning was lost somewhere in the continuous us of "it". Stop it !
Lastly, I am familiar with the prose "Do we not…" this and "Do we not…" that. Establish your own prose. Be unique!
You speak to human value. The value of a human. Collectively, "we" will set that price. Throughout human history, rightfully or wrongly. "We" always have made the valuation. You may personally contribute to adjusting the scale. But, "we" will never, nor have we ever allowed a single individual to establish the scale.
I know this last part was a smelly retort. I just couldn't help myself.Best wishes, Keep it real !"
To anonymous...whomever you are...I will first say that I am thankful for your responses and your input. I respect that you have taken the time, effort, and energy to respond to what I have written and I respect what you are saying. I am grateful for your interest and humbled by your interaction. Thank you...
Since we are in this discussion and I am responding to your ideas I want to be able to talk to
"you" and since I do not know who you are or have anything to call you...I will from this point name you simply for the purpose of giving myself a reference for you...as opposed to just calling you anonymous...or anon...or mous...it is a bit more human this way...and since I know nothing about you...I will give you a gender neutral name just to cover all bases.....Terry.
If at any point you wish to correct my feeble attempt at familiarity I openly invite you to do so...but for the time being and with the information at hand...Terry...I will respond to your first post and see if I can clear some things up.
Your opening paragraph set the tone for the rest of what you wrote, and I was glad to see that your stated intent was fun and to be intellectually stimulating which for me is something I am absolutely interested in. I love a good challenge and constructive criticism means I have an opportunity to learn . If you have actually read the rest of my postings then you will understand learning and personal growth are things I am very interested in.
As for the blog about "Anchors"...I am sorry if you felt insulted by my assertion and equally if my writing was not clearly articulated...which may have unintentionally missed the target for you as a reader. Be that as it may...and after going back and rereading the post again myself...I will say Terry...that I stand by what I wrote and the assertion I made in the blog. Let me please explain...
The second paragraph was not meant as satirical nor was it contrived. It is a statement of understanding...explaining that I...as an individual...have not only the belief....but also the humility and depth of understanding...that I am not solely responsible for any intellect, understanding, gift, or wisdom that I possess. I believe that I collect things along my path...as a beachcomber collects shells and sand dollars among the drifting waves...
The ideas...perceptions...beliefs...faith...understanding...education...and even a shot or two of wisdom...these things and more I pick up along the journey...but I am not arrogant enough to believe that I am who I have become, simply and solely because of me. Frankly that thought is just too simplistic and as persons of depth and intellect we should see that we are not responsible for all that we understand. It was this place of collective wisdom in me...that I am not solely responsible for what I understand...that other forces....God...other people...fate...faith...Karma....call the sources whatever labels you will....they have all contributed to my growth and development...This is what I stated in the second paragraph...and it led me to the point of the blog....anchors....
Now...I seem to have touched some chord with you on this point...so let me start by saying...the word anchor...has more than one definition...it is certainly used and understood to be related to nautical activities and while I will say that I much appreciate your schooling me on the finer points of a nautical vessel and the correct usage of a ballast and keel...again...I stand by not only my usage of the word....but it's meaning as well...and you actually made my point for me...let me explain.
In the American Heritage Dictionary...the first definition of
"anchor" is that of a boat anchor....but the second...says...and I quote...
"2. A source of security or stability." It is to this reference I wrote to and in this context in which I made my assertion...we all...all human beings....use things in our lives to give us a feeling of safety and security...stability...if you will...so while I actually did not make a nautical reference...I did reference the word correctly...for a source of security or stability...is something that keeps us grounded....and balanced...it is something often used in the therapeutic world and I beg forgiveness for not being more clear...but I would invite you to go back and reread the blog....I did...more than once...and that is the foundation from which I write this response.
As for the comments concerning what we know...you are right!....absolutely right!!!...my reference hark ens back to ages ago...multiple millennia in fact...it comes from Plato's book "The Republic" as he was referencing teachings of Socrates and I by no means meant for this idea to come across as original. Far from it. Again I apologize if my writing reads as something it is not...I meant no disrespect to Plato...or Socrates...or to the reader...but I find...that even though these thoughts were written more than a couple thousand years ago...they are still as true today....if not more so...than as when they were first put down...pen to paper...again...please allow me to explain...
I used a clumsy reference to our senses to create a hypothesis...being that we do not "know" much of anything...but this reference is frankly true...and has again and again been proven scientifically in laboratories...our five senses are not as sharp as we would love to believe...and our greatest achievement...I personally think...as humans...is our brain...frankly...and our brains are extremely fallible...I mean...really.....come on Terry....you don't actually believe...that we as human beings know much....do you? Really?!? Come on....
Nah....I will tell you what I believe we are...what we have achieved...what we are...ultimately....is just cleverness...we are very clever...we are good at being clever....but knowledge? True knowledge?....Sorry Terry...mankind has not proven ourselves in that regard yet...not even close. Let me take what you have given as examples...
Solving for X...um...math...OK...I've studied through Calculus myself and while it is a systematic method of solving a problem...it is simply a tool...you said it yourself...and is used as such. Not to minimize it's complexities because even though I have personally learned higher math...I am not a mathematical kinda guy...Entropy...again a tool to measure disorder...being able to create a tool...is cool....it is clever...very clever...but that...in and of itself...does not equate to knowledge...
We also "know" how to create a rocket that we can fuel, project through a trajectory, land, and communicate with...through millions of miles of space...truly clever!...but...we can't figure out...how to keep a 14 year old from walking into a school...with loaded weapons...(another clever tool)...and shooting other children and teachers...and then themselves. We can not figure out how to stop genocide...in our own time...right now...even though we still have members of the families and military that won WW II for us...and members of our human race that survived the Nazi death camps....all still alive today to tell the story...
We can't get and keep millions of Americans off of alcohol...meth...tobacco...to even save their own lives...not to even mention what kind of atrocities they commit with and to their children...because we don't "know" how...
We have people starving to death in the streets of this country...not a third world country...but right here in the good old USA...and we don't "know" how to get them all fed...children included...
We are at war with two countries so far...at the moment...and have at least another 2-3 that we are seriously threatening...and yet we are leaving China alone...trading as long as the day is...like there is nothing going on...because we don't "know" how to control others...and keep ourselves safe at the same time...
We have a country where respect for self is a dying art...not the common place...not anymore...and families being torn apart because of so many people being overwhelmed...because they individually....and we collectively...do not KNOW what to do...
Suicide rates...drug and alcohol dependency, greed, violence, crime, a degrading of our educational systems, a breakdown of common decency and respect, out of control health care and insurance systems and markets, global trade deficits, honesty, integrity, parenting, divorce, sexual predators, an absolute over population of our prison and jail systems, compassion, caring, corporate malfeasance, gang and organized crime, genocide, murder, racism, sexism, social class war, the separation between "haves" and "have nots", and on and on and on and on....
We don't KNOW....how to repair any of this...and soo much more...
Nah...sorry Terry...we don't "know" much of anything at all.
We have a new religion these days...and that is science...many folks look to science as the new frontier...the new "god"...and don't get me wrong...I appreciate all that science has to offer...I benefit from it personally and I thank God for it every day...but I know it's limitations...and I see it's fallibility. There's so much it has done for us and can do. But...If we were so smart...how come we can't cure the common cold?
How come I have a son who is currently talking to me about his own death...at the tender age of 23...because he has Cystic Fibrosis...and he can not be cured...no one can grow him new lungs...not yet anyway...the best we can offer him is to give him someone else's lungs...and of course only if they die first...and that will only mean he will have a likelihood of another 7-10 years...if he doesn't reject the organs...he might see that anyway...and who knows where the medical community will be by then...with another political system we might actually have a visionary in the white house who sees stem cell research for what it is...a way to save lives...but here we sit...with politicians blocking funding...because they can not agree on whose life it is that should be lost...because let's be honest Terry....someone is going to die...so these folks think they are clever enough to "play God" and know...who should be the one to choose to die...the little young one...or the older one who is already here...do any of us truly know what is right...do you? Do I?
Knowledge...if it is TRUE knowledge...should lead to wisdom....and lets face it...it you Think...you know something...it is wisdom that allows you to KNOW what to do with that knowledge...so come on Terry...really....how much do we really know?...I mean let's be honest here...we are clever hairless little apes...but wise?....sorry man...it just ain't so...not yet anyway...I mean hey...we are working on it...yeaup....but we ain't got it down yet bro...Hey man...you said keep it real...I'm keeping it real...
Oh...and that comment about the "information age". Actually...that term...the "information age" is an economics term...it is not referring to the web...nor is it referring to computers at all...not directly anyway...it comes from a conversation on economics...you know..."agricultural age", "industrial age", "information age"...it is a term that is talking about commerce...NOT electronic communication...but the selling of information...so...to answer your question Terry...yeah I do know what the term means...and where it came from...but...did you know....that we are actually leaving the "information age"?...There are some...like a business professor at Harvard University who has written a book about a very interesting trend in which we are actually steeped in currently. I will try to get the author's name and title of the book for you in my next post...it's a good book and a pretty quick read...but basically he says that we are now entering a new age...a new age is dawning that is now focused on intellectual property...patents...and copyrights...and truthfully...that is why we are farming out all of our information selling to countries like India. That's why anytime you talk to an American company anymore...on the phone...you are actually talking to someone on the other side of the world.
See...first we grew and sold food and other ag products...and then we learned how to build factories to build widgets (that's what we called 'em in business school;)...then we learned that information was valuable and we could make a lot of money with that...and now Terry...now...it is ALL about patents and copyrights....that is why Central and South America are chopping down their rain forests so that they can start growing food...because even though we still do it here some...we are letting that market go...and as for manufacturing...most of it is already gone to other countries too...we farm out our farms and our industries...and now we are doing it with our white collar jobs and businesses as well...the info....and the real money now....is in patents...and copyrights...and this country leads the world in these forms of revenue...by a margin that is staggering...and that is why the gap between the "haves" and "have nots" has grown so far and so fast. It is escalating...and will only get worse. Globally...we are in a dangerous trend...with no end in sight....and we are in trouble because of systems theory...which I will go into in another post...this one is sufficiently long enough as it is...suffice it to say...I should call this one good.
Oh...there is one last thing...before I wrap it up...you wrote a response to my blog from Monday night...and I think you might have misunderstood what I was trying to say there...I was trying to reassure you...because of your comment..."This course of discourse, I choose is only beneficial to us both if in fact the true spirit of your invitation is in the manner of the democratic judgment. Rather than creating an oppositional attitude." I was trying to reassure you that I would not be coming from an "oppositional attitude" for the sake of arguing, competing, or opposing...quite the contrary...I have opinions and I express them...but I try to do so with respect for whomever I am speaking with. When I said I would not participate in something that turned unhealthy...I spoke for myself...and again I hold to that...this is a form of voicing a personal boundary...as well as making a commitment to keeping my self in check as well. But I work with people on a regular basis whom cross such lines at will and while I understand that this does not represent everyone...I still find myself taking such precautions and deeming them necessary because I have learned in my personal experience...that even the most schooled and scholarly can have issues with crossing personal boundaries...and I therefore find it a healthy practice to voice a concern early on simply to have the air clear rather than leaving things in such an ambiguous state.
I hope to post again soon...and again...thank you Terry....and thank you all for the input...I really do appreciate it.
Monday, October 8, 2007
First...let me say...
WOW!
I am both impressed and excited by reading the responses and I want to acknowledge, honor, and appreciate everyone who has taken the time and energy to respond and give their input as well as make their requests.
I also want to let everyone know why I have not responded in any way until this moment. I have been out of state visiting family and we just got back...late this evening. For family and friends...Joan and Kelly, Bonnie, Judy, and Darleen are all doing well and we had a great visit with all. They were all very happy to see and play and visit with Sarah and I am sure Heather will be blogging about it very soon...hopefully pictures to follow as well.
For those who have responded I will say this at this moment. I am thrilled with the ideas...appreciate the advice...and I am very appreciative of the challenge and critique...as well as the level of both....and also wholeheartedly welcome the opportunity for this....if I may borrow the phrase..."course of discourse"...I shall respond to that particular response in a separate blog dedicated to the ideas, comments, challenges, and critiques of this unnamed source.
To whomever you are...I will say....I immensely and deeply appreciate your thought, insight, and energy to what I have written...and I will give you some of the same in response...all in the spirit with which this blog and my request were created in. I have no interest in oppositional attitudes just for the sake of competition or a war of words. I see that kind of discourse without potential for my personal growth...and my personal growth is why I decided to begin this blog...I have only the desire to exchange ideas and at most mildly spar through intelligent but friendly discourse and philosophies for the sole purpose of personal growth and to have fun. Once play has been extinguished and competition has been firmly implanted in it's place for the purpose of "Winning"...I'm out...because it then can turn to personal attacks and is no longer of any personal interest to me...neither in the giving or receiving roles...
I have no desire...and if one has read my blogs you will see....for doing anything other than pursuing my own growth and my own health. Once any game... intellectual or otherwise....becomes unhealthy to me...then I am ready to pursue another course that will prove to be more productive...all this to reassure and say...I have no desire to make a challenge a matter of personal power and control...I actually spend a good deal of my professional life showing people how to achieve their goals by pursuing another...more healthy course of action. I will also say that I welcome a challenge and difference of ideas...and I am completely capable of agreeing to disagree if that is what is called for....so I welcome the critique and challenge...
So...with that said...I will respond once I have had some sleep...and am more re energized so that I may give you a response worthy or your comments.
To others...Marc....Mike...and G...I thank you for your suggestions...I will be blogging on these topics as I see them interesting as well...I appreciate the advice and will take it to heart...and to Mike...yes...I do still teach...currently I am teaching Psychology...at a two year college....and I enjoy the banter, challenges, and the many differing directions that my students always take us to...and yeah...I think that would be a great series of blogs on these experiences LOL...thank you for the interest.
Anywah...thank you all again and I will get on this as soon as I can.
Thanks again...and I will talk with ya soon ;)
I am both impressed and excited by reading the responses and I want to acknowledge, honor, and appreciate everyone who has taken the time and energy to respond and give their input as well as make their requests.
I also want to let everyone know why I have not responded in any way until this moment. I have been out of state visiting family and we just got back...late this evening. For family and friends...Joan and Kelly, Bonnie, Judy, and Darleen are all doing well and we had a great visit with all. They were all very happy to see and play and visit with Sarah and I am sure Heather will be blogging about it very soon...hopefully pictures to follow as well.
For those who have responded I will say this at this moment. I am thrilled with the ideas...appreciate the advice...and I am very appreciative of the challenge and critique...as well as the level of both....and also wholeheartedly welcome the opportunity for this....if I may borrow the phrase..."course of discourse"...I shall respond to that particular response in a separate blog dedicated to the ideas, comments, challenges, and critiques of this unnamed source.
To whomever you are...I will say....I immensely and deeply appreciate your thought, insight, and energy to what I have written...and I will give you some of the same in response...all in the spirit with which this blog and my request were created in. I have no interest in oppositional attitudes just for the sake of competition or a war of words. I see that kind of discourse without potential for my personal growth...and my personal growth is why I decided to begin this blog...I have only the desire to exchange ideas and at most mildly spar through intelligent but friendly discourse and philosophies for the sole purpose of personal growth and to have fun. Once play has been extinguished and competition has been firmly implanted in it's place for the purpose of "Winning"...I'm out...because it then can turn to personal attacks and is no longer of any personal interest to me...neither in the giving or receiving roles...
I have no desire...and if one has read my blogs you will see....for doing anything other than pursuing my own growth and my own health. Once any game... intellectual or otherwise....becomes unhealthy to me...then I am ready to pursue another course that will prove to be more productive...all this to reassure and say...I have no desire to make a challenge a matter of personal power and control...I actually spend a good deal of my professional life showing people how to achieve their goals by pursuing another...more healthy course of action. I will also say that I welcome a challenge and difference of ideas...and I am completely capable of agreeing to disagree if that is what is called for....so I welcome the critique and challenge...
So...with that said...I will respond once I have had some sleep...and am more re energized so that I may give you a response worthy or your comments.
To others...Marc....Mike...and G...I thank you for your suggestions...I will be blogging on these topics as I see them interesting as well...I appreciate the advice and will take it to heart...and to Mike...yes...I do still teach...currently I am teaching Psychology...at a two year college....and I enjoy the banter, challenges, and the many differing directions that my students always take us to...and yeah...I think that would be a great series of blogs on these experiences LOL...thank you for the interest.
Anywah...thank you all again and I will get on this as soon as I can.
Thanks again...and I will talk with ya soon ;)
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